Comments on Aviation of Japan 日本の航空史: Useful Colours ~ Army Interiors Part One

Great! That's roughly equivalent to FS35164, w...

2010-05-15T01:51:07.541+01:00

Great! That's roughly equivalent to FS35164, which, in turn, derives from the widely available ANA 608 Intermediate Blue! If any difference, Humbrol 79 is a bit greyer, which again goes in the direction we want...
Fernando

Hi Fernando Yes - a typo! Thank you for pointing...

2010-05-11T07:30:46.023+01:00

Hi Fernando

Yes - a typo! Thank you for pointing it out. It should be 35052. I have now corrected it. But please note that 35052 @ 4.79 is not a very good match (<2.0 = close match) being too blue and not grey enough. The colour is a dark blue grey similar to the old Humbrol Authentic colour Gris Bleu Foncé which is still available as 79 Matt Blue Grey but a tad more blue.

Regards
Nick

Hi, Nick, 34052 is a deep green... did you mean 3...

2010-05-11T01:52:41.664+01:00

Hi, Nick,
34052 is a deep green... did you mean 35052? In the Color Server (I know you don't like its renderings...) 35052 is much brighter and less grey than your swatch. Should the color be a rather grayish dark blue like French Bleu de Nuit?
Thanks, Fernando

Hi StefW Thank you for your kind comments. The N...

2009-12-11T10:28:25.866Z

Hi StefW

Thank you for your kind comments.

The NASM B7A1 Grace interior colour has been precisely documented by Robert C Mikesh and the colours as reported are presented here:-

http://www.straggleresearch.com/2009/09/aichi-b7a2-ryusei-grace-colours.html

However they may appear in colour photographs the colour is predominantly green! I cannot reiterate enough how modellers should not trust colour photographs, especially online digitized images of colour photographs. Unfortunately they do and one sees long threads of argument on forums about how these colours can look.

Best regards
Nick

Dear Staggler, These informations are really real...

2009-12-03T15:02:57.127Z

Dear Staggler,

These informations are really really interesting. I've heard about that but it was quite vague.
Do you think that this blue tint may have been used also in Navy aircraft?
I remember pictures of the preserved (NASM) B7A1 Grace (sole survivor) cockpits and remember very precisely a blue-grey shade there which looked like a very faded and matt aotake (my guess was for a solid paint rather than a coat of aotake over metalic parts).
Thanks for all your work !!!

BR

StefW

Sounds like the D4Y tail fin we featured here a wh...

2009-09-18T07:48:58.767+01:00

Sounds like the D4Y tail fin we featured here a while back:-

http://www.straggleresearch.com/2009/06/aichi-d4y-judy-tailfin.html

http://www.straggleresearch.com/2009/06/aichi-d4y-judy-tailfin-pt-2.html

Some of the interior paint may just be seen in one of the shots. That was a Navy aircraft of course . . .

Hi ,Nick-- A tangential comment. Circa 1989 I en...

2009-09-18T04:09:04.657+01:00

Hi ,Nick--

A tangential comment.

Circa 1989 I encountered an antique store in Florence, South Carolina, run by a rather odd old man. The place had been touted in roadside signage as a museum, and I'd been searching for the Florence air museum, so I checked it out. I was subsequently to learn that the old guy had been removed as proprietor of the air museum some months previously.

On a table amidst some typical junk-shop clutter sat the fin of a D4Y. It appeared to be unrestored, although in pretty good shape. The exterior was as I would have expected; dark green overall, with a partial code neatly hand-painted on (I believe).

The interior paint was also visible. From what little I knew at that time (I had a copy of the Thorpe book on IJN aircraft) I expected to see a tinted blue-green lacquer coating. What I saw was an almost garish teal blue metallic paint. It was a bit jarring--I thought at the time the paint looked like the bright "metal-flake" paints that hobby shops sold in the '60s for custom car kits. There was nothing about the fin that suggested repainting had been done.

There was a tag on the fin--$150-- but the old man told me it wasn't for sale. there was also a business card next to it, left by one James Lansdale. He'd examined/appraised it, I guess.

I believe this is a well-known artifact, although I've long since lost my notes and couldn't tell you the tail code.

FWIW.

very interesting ! I look forward to further parts...

2009-08-31T05:33:43.474+01:00

very interesting !
I look forward to further parts in this series.

and typical of my luck I have already assembled my Ki-44,now that I read your blog I wish I could have used this Ash Indigo color instead.

Hello Nick! Thank you very much for this new info!...

2009-08-29T18:56:17.245+01:00

Hello Nick!
Thank you very much for this new info! Can't wait for Part 2! :)
Kind regards,
Dmitry

Thank you for posting Nick, useful information ind...

2009-08-29T16:08:09.280+01:00

Thank you for posting Nick, useful information indeed. I will be looking forward to the follow up, on post-1943 airframes, especially in regard to the Ki-67. Cheers!

"Do all ki-43-1's have this blue gray coc...

2009-08-29T14:27:50.269+01:00

"Do all ki-43-1's have this blue gray cockpit color?Also how about the Ki-44?"

Probably, although 'aotake' has also been reported in Ki-43-1 cockpits, e.g. s/n 750. How far these are remnants of #3 misidentified as 'aotake', or perhaps 'aotake' fragments beneath or behind painted #3 is unknown.

The earlier production Ki-44 certainly had this colour which has also been confirmed by a Ki-44 pilot. In Part 2 I'll present the subsequent cockpit interior colours.

Kind regards
Nick

Ah I see, anonymouse. Well, as I already explained...

2009-08-29T14:22:34.671+01:00

Ah I see, anonymouse. Well, as I already explained in the post there are two pieces of evidence in addition to the actual Army standard swatch for #3 from the Rikugun Kokukiyo Zairyokikaku. There are the Hess-Ives values courtesy of Katsushi Owaki which provide the contemporaneous hue range against which the #3 swatch may be compared (the swatch is consistently median to these) and then the pre-war French colour card. This is also consistent with the median value of the chip I have posted, although its appearance will of course be dependent upon the usual monitor and software viewing issues, hence the inclusion of comparable values.

The Hess-Ives values provide a range of colour, as for the other standards, in this case from the more greyish to the more blueish.

These three pieces of evidence combined, together with the regulations as quoted, should be sufficient to make the choice and appearance of this colour on a model a reasonable one. It is not a matter of life and death.

Kind regards
Nick

Do all ki-43-1's have this blue gray cockpit c...

2009-08-29T14:18:58.425+01:00

Do all ki-43-1's have this blue gray cockpit color?Also how about the Ki-44?

Thank you Nick. One more question if I may. I'...

2009-08-29T13:59:17.375+01:00

Thank you Nick.
One more question if I may.
I'm not sure I understand how you came up with the colour chips. What were your sources? Relics? Something else?

Thanks much Ken! With your permission I shall add...

2009-08-29T13:58:36.316+01:00

Thanks much Ken! With your permission I shall add that to the main post so it doesn't get missed.

Thanks & kind regards
Nick

Hello Nick, Thanks for the color swatches and tak...

2009-08-29T13:53:37.562+01:00

Hello Nick,

Thanks for the color swatches and taking time to make the posting.

A pre-mixed hobby paint color in the 'ball park' is Pollyscale's RLM 24 Blau. The paint is darker than your swatches. It will need the addition of some white, to lighten it a little, for a better match.

Regards,
Ken Glass

No, anonymouse, I'm sorry I couldn't. AFAI...

2009-08-29T13:46:02.429+01:00

No, anonymouse, I'm sorry I couldn't. AFAIK the Rikugun Kokukiyo Zairyokikaku and associated regulations have never been published or translated in their entirety, although some of the Army colours were published in Gakken 52 as printed chips. I received my annotated, translated copies through the kindness of a correspondent in Japan several years ago and at the time was given to understand that a book was to be published about them. That does not seem to have transpired, although snippets have appeared in various Gakken, Model Art and Bunrin-do publications since then.

You might try writing to Shigeru Nohara via Model Art, or you could post a request on one of the Japanese forums (fora?). If you go that route you would probably get a better response by not being "anonymous".

If all else fails you could always try Arawasi (see link here). Good luck!

Kind regards
Nick

Thanks for the interesting piece. Could you please...

2009-08-29T12:57:52.278+01:00

Thanks for the interesting piece.
Could you please let me know where the 1932 Army painting regulations can be found? Where somebody can get a hold of them?
And for that matter the 1936 revised?